Outside Looking In
As everyone knows, the past month has been a tough one at the race track for Red Bull Racing. It is definitely not from a lack of effort. We know our cars are capable of being competitive week in and week out - however each week we must first overcome the obstacle of qualifying just to have the chance to race on Sundays. Just how hard is it outside of the coveted Top-35? Well an interesting stat was brought up in our team meeting today. The current points leader Jeff Gordon would have missed 3 races already this season, had he started the year outside of the Top-35 in points and remained there, like AJ and Brian have. This season in the garage area you hear a lot of talk about the Top-35 rule. Many see pro's to the rule, and many others see con's. This is the first season where so many competitive teams, carrying big-named sponsors, have been trying to make the field each week - and the first time so many competitive drivers and teams have gone home (and some on a regular basis). NASCAR is currently evaluating the rule, but has yet to make a decision for the 2008 season. What do you think? Should the Top-35 rule be changed?
posted by racing bull at 10:26 AM
39 Comments:
I was thinking about this the other day...just say they changed it to the top 25 rule...its going to be just as hard or maybe even harder to get into the top 25 because you would be facing more big name teams, but it would lock in Brian and AJ almost every week because they usually qualify in the spots where they could make it if the rule was changed...first I think they should line up all the cars that need to go or go home first consecutively in the qualifying order and see how that works out first
Here are my thoughts on the rule:
- Only the top 20 should be locked in as they are the only real teams that are not struggling.
- Qualifying order should be based on Owner Points (1st in Owner Points goes out last)
- A team that is trying to qualify for a race must have attempted to qualify in each of the past 5 races.
I don't think that any teams should be locked in at all as this rule gives locked in teams an advantage over the go or go home teams.
I would like to see Nascar take the 40 fastest and then have 3 provisional spots like they used to. A driver shouldn't win the championship if he can't be able the 40 fastest each week in the first place. However since that won't ever happen again, I say lock in the top 20 since they are pretty much they only ones that will have a shot at the championship. Understand why the top 35 rule was created but it isn't serving it's purpose anymore. You still have part time teams showing up at certain races and kicking out the full time teams that are trying to qualify every week.
Top 12 in owners points are locked in.
anyone who has won a race in the current year is locked in.
one past champions provisional per race (if neccesary)to the most recent champ that missed based on time.
I like the 40 and 3 rule or I would even take the top 12 (the previous years chasers) and make everyone else qualify. It is so ridiculous that teams locked in can spend zero time working on qualifying- as it is now it is only qualifying for 14 cars...
I also think that teams that only try to qualify for like 6 races during the year like boris said should be forced to try for all the races are try for none
I say top 12 from the chase are guarnteed for the first 5 races, then it switches over to current years top 12 after that putting more emphasis on the chase.
I saw on jayski.com that the #13 team will not be running anymore races until they can secure sponsorship. Would it be to far out of reach for team red bull to buy the #13 teams owners points. That would get one of the teams in, and the 83 proved that once they make the race they are good, the main obstacle is just getting in.
I dont know can they buy the 13 teams owners points
Im pretty sure if Ginn discontinues the 13, TRB can buy the points if Ginn sells them. I mean Ginns trying to get more money and this would be a good way. I hope they can!
Someone can for sure by the #13 Teams points if Ginn is selling them. Hopefully Team Red Bull would jump on this as I know Micheal Waltrip Racing tries to buy there way in anyway possible.
I can’t seem to write down how I feel point for point in under three pages, so this is the summary.
I would have to say that I’d prefer the 40 / 3 rule over any other. If there is to be a champion, I’d like to know that they earned their way into the race, as opposed to having a starting position handed to them.
The cars are being structured to be more competitive and the teams all have good respectable and deserving sponsor. Everyone deserves a fair and equal chance to make the race.
The top 35 rule is ridiculous. Imagine going to your local dirt track and the top 30 qualify there. What's the point of having heat races or time trials? You may as well just advertise that you are having a feature. Real race car drivers have to qualify for the race. When Red Bull qualifies for a race, they really earned their spot. Jeff Gordon would deserve not to be in the race on Sunday if he can't keep up with the field. No matter who you are, you should be fast enough in qualifying. I say if you have to have some guaranteed starters, then, only the top 15. The rest should have to qualify on time! Why in the world would Nascar want to have a driver in the race that can't reach the speed of the others? Get back to real racing and have everyone qualify!
I like the idea of having the top 20 locked in plus winners of races this year.
However, I think their will be a lot of consolidation over the rest of the year and offseason. There is no way that NASCAR and these teams can survive when 49 competitive funded teams show up every week. The sponsors are going to start backing out. There is no way that teams like the #7, #21, #78, #49, etc can survive as 1 team owners and I really question if 2 team cars will be able to survive. But the problem is that everyone sees this and wants to add 1 or 2 cars to their organization to strengthen their own team, but all it really does is weaken them.
Just watching NASCAR Now I realized there will be 1 less car qualifying for the races without the #13 car and it looks like DEI will merge with Ginn maybe as soon as tonight which I can almost guarantee that the #15 car will then get the #13 car's owner points.
i think it should change. its so unfair! no teams should be locked in, it would make qualifying more interesting and you wouldn't know who was going to be in the race.
I think red bull should try and get the points just because Ginn needs the money because of sponsorships backing out on him...I know its not the best way to get in the show, but hell Waltrip is Toyotas golden boy, and he has other people drive his cars like Labonte and the road ringers.
The other problem I see with making races in my opinion is the lack of comunication. I dont think the teams are working together like #55#83#22 those major toyota teams, because they all want to be the first toyota team to do this or that. I mean BDR was fast at Daytona so was Waltrip but TRB wasnt, something is missing there. Just my opinion though.
Regarding Gordon, you can pick many drivers/teams that would not have qualified on time. It is an irrevelent point as most "locked in" teams don't run a "qualifying setup" like the ones battling to get in the race. Top 35 rule is out dated and will change next year. Go TRB!
Maybe they should INVERT the top 35 rule........the 35 fastest make it then the top 5 owner's points not already in the field. Then the final 3 spots go to champion's provisional (still limited to 6) and the final 2 spots to winners from the same or previous year.....if none left they go to the next highest owner's points. Just my opinion! :)
A clip from John Darby was on Dialed In today and he said that changing the 35 rule would make it harder for new teams to get into the sport. He said something about the less number of cars locked in, the more cars will be going for those spots which would make it harder for the new teams. Someone is going to have to explain that logic to me. I would think that the less spots locked in, the better chance of new teams coming into the sport.
I'll be very surprised if the rule gets changed next year.
I dont see how it could get any harder for the new teams to get in. The system has been broken for a few years now. It isn't going to fix Its self.
IT would get harder for new teams to get into because all they would be doing would be battling for 20 or 25 spots which would be less spots than 35
It would be harder to get "locked-in" but it may be easier to make the race every week.....I bet the only change they make, IF they make ANY will be have the sub-35 qualify all in a row.
krystle makes a good point about the top 35 being locked in. By keeping the top 35 rule around it forces consolidation within the garage. Reducing it to 20 gives some teams that shouldn't be out there the idea that they can compete.
I guess i was thinking too fast to properly explain myself. I'm not concerned with getting into the top thirtyfive right now. I just want to make it into the races. Moving up in the standings is just a benificial result of taking the checkered flag on sunday.
I like the idea of the 40/3 rule but i really dont see Nascar changing to that. For some reason they really seemed focused on having some sort of "Locked In" program. If they really believe in the Race to the Chase - let that top 12 really mean something. Each week the top 12 in points are the only one locked into qualifying spots. Everyone else needs to get in on time. That would make the top twelve positions more meaningful and worth trying to remain all during the year.
In the interem - if they change for next year - they should, at the very least, let the go-homers all qualify together. Too many times you have either gotten in or sent home based on when you went out. Make it as fair as possible for the teams right now.
Should be the top 20 instead of 35. Anybody that qualifies in the top 10 and has to go home inticates a flaw in the rules. Hope it changes.
Hopefully atleast they get rid of the champion prov. This rule is stupid and incourages people like MWR and Wood Brothers to pull out their current driver for a past champ just to make the race and then run 40th.
I think it is a pipe dream to expect the Toy teams to work together this year. The problem is they are in direct competition with each other just to make races. This whole concept of locking cars in...Tiger Woods isn't locked in...I just don't get it, racing would go on if the 24, 20 or 8 didn't make a race now and then. I HATE the fact that BV or AJ may not be in race I already have tix for this year, I say share the wealth, share the pain.
I agree with you Toro. On a side note that I hate to ask but I have been wondering if the Red Bull cars do not qualify for a race does their merchandise trailor still stay at the track all weekend?
Yes, the merchandise trailor does stay at the track for the weekend. I was at the Chicago race and went to the trailor. There were lots of people buying Red Bull merchandise!!! I stocked up!! Go Team Red Bull!
I think its so unfair the way they do it... If they are having qualifying,then they should all have to qualify....None should be locked in... Who cares if they are a big name ? If they don't have what it takes,they should be sent packing like the do or go homers!If they are having lock ins there should be no more then 20 or so !! This would give all teams a much better chance of making the races.Billtown wants to see TBR every week there is racing to be found !!! Go get them Brian and A.J.
And for all the people that are on the outside looking in, its really easy for them to get on blogs and start knocking drivers - i dont think any of them understand how truly devastating it is each week they dont make it in. The rules play against them and each week they have to get out there with the riduculous rules and attempt to qualify. The rules NEED TO GO!!!!
Well, it was announced today that MWR is going to use Terry Labonte in the #55 car at Indy. Michael...not an intelligent move on your part.
The point is, the 55 is so far out of the top 35 that putting a champion in there, while it is a guarantee to race is just pointless. What Waltrip really needs is a younger driver to put in the car. As much as BV is competing with Reutimann and Menard, I'd have to admit that when those guys finally get in a ride, they're going to shine. All Labonte does is get you in the race and then runs around 34th - 43rd...WHAT'S THE POINT? This pure exploitation of the rule by MWR (and Wood Bros) shows that the rules need to be changed. What's the difference between doing that and TRB putting Labonte in the 84 for 5 races so he can get that car in the show every week.
I'm sure TRB wants to get in and race on pride. MWR is doing what he can for his sponsors.
Craig, it is all about keeping NAPA as a sponsor. Indy is one of the biggest races, they need that car in the field.
TO me them constantly putting different drivers in there cars shows how much the beleive in themselves as a team...
In my opinion, the first thing that has to change is the past champions provisional. If you want to include these provisional "gifts" in the mix, then require that the team using them employee the same driver in that car for the entire year. A team that isn't in the top 35 but who's loaded with cash could hire Labonte, Jarrett, and Elliot to lock themselves into 18 races. That's pathetic!
The only way to make it fair is to require all drivers to qualify. Letting someone get a free pass because they're in the top 35 is rediculous, especially now that there are so many teams trying to get in.
I SAY , LINE EM UP LIKE THEY QUALIFY. TOYOTA NEEDS TO GET A BETTER MOTOR PROGRAM. BRIAN USUALLY RUNS WELL IF HE CAN GET IN THE RACE AND STAY IN THE RACE. AND YES I AM A FAN. BUT I WONDER IF THIS TEAM WILL STAY TOGETHER. I FEEL BAD FOR THE PIT CREWS , THEY WANT TO GO TO THE TRACK AND DO THEIR JOBS. THE DRIVERS, ROAD CREWS
AND THE CREW CHIEFS ,. SHOP PEOPLE HELL, EVERYBODY THAT WORKS THERE HAS GOT TO SO DISAPPOINTED. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THESE TEAMS IN THE TOP 35 BY THE END OF YEAR. I DONT THINK NASCAR WILL CHANGE THEIR RULES. UNLESS YOUR THE 24,48,20,OR 8 YOU ARE SOL
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